Methods and Solutions

[Edith]

While I whole-heartedly support Israel in its plight to have a peaceful life, I cannot understand its methods. Past large incursions have obviously failed to secure such a peace and I don’t know if anyone is paying attention, but the rockets are still raining on its people. Israel needs to engage in talks with Hamas and Iran. Engagement doesn’t mean endorsement. I recall a time when Arafat, Fatah’s leader, was Israel’s sworn enemy. Today we hear of Fatah as “friendly” to Israel. It was once Fatah’s aim to destroy Israel yet today they are viewed as the “solution”for Palestine. How many times can history repeat itself? It took years for Israel to talk with Arafat(and vice-versa), how many years will it take for her to speak with Hamas?

The onus to broker a peace doesn’t rest solely on Israel’s shoulder but on all the players in that part of the world. Hamas cannot be taken seriously as a government if it persists on attacking its neighbour and advocating for the destruction of Israel. Rock and rocket throwing hasn’t produced a prosperous Palestine as Gazans are worse off today than they have ever been and Hamas is proceeding with these methods at the peril of its people. Israel exists and will always exist. The focus needs to be on the best interest of the people. An enemy of peace, is an enemy of all people.

Israel, Iran, Syria: all need to work together to make this great part of the world free of violence. There is no State that is completely evil and no State which is completely good. Portraying one another as such is fruitless. Somewhere there needs to be a stop to the modern-day commie witch-hunt type attitude towards the world of Islam. As well, there needs to be a stop to the denial of Israel’s right to exist. A bit of respect will go a long way.

Let the legacy of the powers that be in both Gaza and Israel, to their children, be A CHILDHOOD.

Time for change people…
Edith Gagnon
233 Pleasant Ave T.O.
416.753.4051
416.737.9543

[Sharbano]

Today we hear of Fatah as “friendly” to Israel

This Only comes from people who do Not understand the Middle East. It would be best for ALL those who wish Israel to talk to the PLO, et.al, that they hear what these people SAY to their own IN Arabic. What the West sees is Only what they want you to see. Virtually NONE of the nearly 2 dozen Arab states want Israel, OR Jews, in the Middle East. All this talk of what the West calls "Peace" is merely a diversion. The ultimate goal is to RID the M.E. of Jews. Even Sadat said this when "negotiating" peace with Israel. It is a 'first step' in the diplomatic realm to gain additional land, for peace, to the point where Arabs can then finish Her off. Furthermore, the word "Peace", in Arabic, does NOT have the same connotation as it does for the West. MUCH of what Islam says is misunderstood in the West and "peace" is one of them. Peace, in Arabic, is nothing less than an absence of War. If you listen carefully the Arabs will say Israel and they have been AT peace at different times. Does ANYone in the West "Believe" there has been ANY peace in the M.E. Until people of the West fully understand the "culture" of the Arab they will Continue to MISunderstand the motives. There should be plenty of videos available for a Westerner to fully "See" what the Arab goals are, such as the Palestinian Media Watch site, for one.

[Edith]

I see you are full of Solutions... It is this kind of rhetoric that keeps the fight going on both sides. Arabs vilify Jews and vice-versa. Oh, how productive! Everyone is shouting but noone is listening. Who killed Rabin? Who killed Sadat? It is true that as a person from the Occident who has her whole life lived in peace, I do not have the emotional baggage that the Jewish population who has survived a Holocaust. I don't think that anyone can blame you for feeling the way you do, it is kind of a collective Post traumatic Stress and you have never stopped fighting for your survival since. It is also true that you as an insider cannot see past the hatred. I have travelled some in my lifetime and in some countries where there is a lot of suspicion with but what I have found is that most people want a normal life. Average citizens of any country want a normal life. So if you believe that Arabs are all kooks then I am sure there are Arabs who think the same of Jews. What then? The truth is very important but solutions are even more so and if current methods don't work...
The most peaceful period in Israel history happened when Ehud Barak was PM and held serious negotiations with Palestinians. It wasn't perfect but was on its way to being. Same for Ariel Sharon's change of position with regards to ways to deal with the situation.
If all you want is to be right, well good luck to you. But if what you want is results, start thinking with the future of children in mind.

[Sharbano]

Well, it can be put This way. If Arabs would "lay" down their weapons their Would be peace in the Middle East. If Israel were to lay down her weapons there would no longer be an Israel. It's as simple as that. You really Should check out PMW and view their videos. It is the PLO in their Own words and not just what Israeli's say they say. Their Own rhetoric speaks volumes. I, for one, would welcome peaceful co-existence but I'm Not so naive to think it can and will be established. The situation will not change until the current generation changes and teaches their young differently. It will take at least a generation to accomplish this, since the current youngsters are already brainwashed against Jews. Therefore this young generation will have to pass before that can be accomplished. That's the sad fact of the matter. It will Also have to come to pass that the Qu'ran would have to be modernized in some way to "fit" into modern civilized society. The main turning point that resulted in the current ideology of the Arabs came about from the defeat of the Ottoman Empire. Turkey was forced to adopt Western methods and customs and forbid Islam to be the Law of the land. This resulted in a re-thinking on the part of the Arabs and the thinking was that they were Not adhering to the Qu'ran as they should have been. Those religious circles decided it was time to go Back to the early ways of doing things, e.g. Sharia Law. The conclusion of the defeat of the Ottoman Empire brought forward the most "radical" of views. It became even MORE so in 1948 when the Arab armies were defeated. So it will take more than a generation to overcome where we are today. The ONLY alternative is a complete and utter defeat of Israel's enemies. This too, is a way that the Arab street listens. Unfortunately there aren't too many alternatives when it comes to the people that Israel has had to deal with.

As far as Barak and Sharon; what they did was, in fact, bring more problems to the Jewish nation. It was Barak who brought about the second intifada. Sharon's 'disengagement' brought us to the situation today. It was Barak's policies that brought about the second Lebanon War. Therefore, these two, have Created more problems then they solved. The ONLY time there was calm is when Israel went After the terrorist leaders themselves. It was when this occured that the other side took notice and was ready to "listen", especially when Arafat had a tank at his doorstep.

[Edith]

To quote John Lennon: "You may say, I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one. I hope some day, you'll join me And the world will live as one.."

[Sharbano]

I wonder, is this an attempt at subtle humor. We can all sit around and sing cumbaya no doubt. There are "Realities" in the world a person Just Cannot ignore. We can't afford to be the three monkeys who hide from evil. There are those who will consistently discount the existence of evil but that doesn't bring it to an end nor does it relegate it to obscurity. It has been with us throughout generations and will continue in the future and nothing said or done will obviate it.

[wharold]

Edith, I see you're from the "I'd like to buy the world a coke" school of foreign policy and national defense.

The entire point of Hamas, Fatah et al is the end of Jewish sovereignty ... or do you consider it too extreme and unhelpful to KNOW this. While you're busy with your moral equivocations, try to spend some time reading the Koran, listening to the imams, and see if maybe, just maybe, there's a correlation between how ?alestinians are taught and how they behave and what they expect. Do the same for Jews. Do Jews teach the exact same kind of hate the ?alestinians teach or don't they? If they don't (and they never do or have), then there's no basis for your "balance" between the parties; one that seeks a "genocide" of the other and one that seeks to repell said genocide. Can you determine which side speaks of genocide as a plan of their's?

And to put it in perspective, there are MORE ?alestinians NOW, 40 years after Israel apparently began the "genocide" of ?alestinians. Furthermore, if the Israelis are as evil as ?alestinians claim, there would be no ?alestinians alive to make such a claim.

?alestinian leaders have "educated" their people to expect the end of Israel. And, ?alestinians have voted for the party that promised this outcome the quickest. How cruel are the Jews to limit ?alestinian "self-determination" solely on the pathetic grounds that all "Zionists" would have to die!

There will be no peace with any form of !slam until the seat of !slam is destroyed. !slam intends no peace until the world is governed by !slamic rules. And there will be no peace for the world should the Jews lose for Muzzlems are not only against Jews, but also Hindus, Buddhists, Taoists, Confucions, Sikhs, Zoroastrians, xians ... Alaskans and hockey fans too.

Why would ?alestinians who voted for Hamas to destroy Israel, want to live in Israel alongside Jews when they don't allow Jews to live alongside them (or at all) in any Arab !slamic nation? Can you put some logic to !slamic insanity?

But saying, "The most peaceful period in Israel history..." occurred while negotiating with PLO terror-master Arafat belies real history and suggests that you see the fraud of ?alestinianism as equally legitimate as the re-born state of Israel. Recall it was during this time that Israel stopped the Karine A from docking with several tonnes of weaponry, of course, all to used for the kind of peace boom ?alestinianism enjoys.

[IamJoseph]

Israel is making the same error as America: Bush's failure is he went chasing Bin Laden in the Talibanic hills - when he should have gone to S.A. & Egypt after 9/11. The regimes owe US trillions in compo - but Bush expended more lives and money, while securing no benefit. Is Israel not doing the same? The Bin Ladens and Hamas are only effects of what the Regimes have been fostering. While their terror groups have the blood of 1000s of innocent folk - the Regimes have the blood of millions on their hands. Israel had a good op to confront Iran, Syria and Hezbollah in one line this time - but focused on their proxies. Taking care of the lairs of the terror heads would have got Israel worldly thanks - as well as dealing the best way with Hamas and the P.A. - and this is not possibe to bypass in the future.

[IamJoseph]

Methods and Solutions.

# 1. NEVER ever call a deathly 3-state as a 2-state.

The Israeli Government, and second the Israeli media, are first and foremost guilty of this, playing into the hands of those hellbent on Israel's demise. Wakey, wakey!

Does anyone need a calculator or a history book?

'IT WILL BE A HISTORIC COMPROMISE TO GRANT TWO STATES IN PALESTINE - ONE FOR THE JEWS AND ONE FOR THE ARABS' - A cigar chomping Churchill.

Those who call a 3-state as a 2-state today - will not be able to counter a 4-state tomorrow. And it will still be called a 2-state.

Some more maths: Israel is being villified today for *OCCUPYING* 12% of the land allocated her in the Balfour Dec [80% went to Jordan, and more than 8% is held by the Arabs in Gaza and parts of the west bank]. And half of Israel is desert land.

Does the world need a new golf course on soccer-sized Israel? Then go ahead - call all the serial 2-state demands as a 2-state. Till there is none. Israel is asking for it.

[Edith]

It is evident that both sides sing the same song and a bit ironic that the only time any side in this conflict believe what the other says is when it says bad things about the other side. I guess it is a real stretch of the imagination to think that not all Arabs are bad and that not all Jews are good. Aren't you tired of playing the victim?
Thank God we have an American President who is conciliatory in nature and not a Bush, let's make more enemies-type of solutions. By the way. I am not American, I am Canadian.

[Sharbano]

It's unfortunate but there those who Can Not and Will Not accept there is an actual evil in the world, even though it will be THese same people who can call Oil companies Evil, Drug companies Evil, etc, etc. But when it comes to the Arab mindset, by no means can we call these people evil, even though they will decapitate people and a host of other atrocities. I can guarantee if there were a possible solution it would have Already been done by now. Israel has had Many leaders who are willing to give up Most everything to attain peace. A recent example is when the Temple Mount was retaken and subsequently given Back to the Arabs. Did this magnanimous gesture accomplish one whit, not at all. This mindset of people to force a peace down people's throats is exactly like when my daughter was in public school and had to write a report on how Hitler, y"sh, could have been curtailed by "conflict resolution". It is the incapacity to understand the 'nature of man' and the Evil that can be done by some. Once again, I reiterate, you should read the Qu'ran and study the beginnings of Mohammed and Then you can understand This mindset. Until this Arab mindset Changes there Just cannot be peace. People like Abu Mazen has NOT changed this mindset but, instead, has only "hidden" it from the West. It's time for the West to wake up to the Reality on the Ground, otherwise you will be Part of Dar al-Harb.

[Edith]

I fully accept that there is evil on earth. I also believe that the actions of the few can ruin it for the majority. To vilify Iran and ALL its people and ALL its representatives is like saying that ALL Israelis and ALL their representatives are good. Again, who killed Rabin? An Arab? Who killed Sadat? A Jew? I am sure that in Hitler's Germany there were detractors who might have prevented a lot of damage had they been sought out. In today's era it would be more difficult to undertake such systemic atrocities, with all of the communications advances. I am not advocating that we pretend there are no evil elements in the Arab world, what I am saying is that there is good that can be tapped into and these are the folks that are lost when they are put in the same category as the bad elements in their SOCIETIES. For instance, what to make of the Baptiste regime in Liberia? Where we to condemn the whole population for some nuts in power?
There is good and bad everywhere. The good people of the world need to be linked and then can work on a solid base for the future. These people will also have to recognize that this stance might be dangerous to their health as it will make them enemies in both their own and abroad. They will also have to accept that there are people bent on making sure that these links are destroyed. The people that Israel consider enemies, the good ones within, will be the first ones to feel the brunt of the hatred from Israel exactly because they will be the ones closest to them. Think for instance of a good man. One that treats women well. Whenever his close girl friends feel unjustly treated by some idiot man who do you think will get the back lash?
You say that Arabs teach their kids to hate Jews? Israel is a very "military" country. They teach recent history to their young and can one not deduce that thereby are teaching that Arabs are they enemy they are forever fighting.
I just want you to understand that I am on Israel's side. There is no question about that. This doesn't mean that she is above criticism or that one has to agree with her every move. I just want her to achieve the results she wants and not perpetuate the problems that have had her fight every 10 years or so.

It is only by winning the hearts of regular people that one can bring about change.

[Edith]

I saw a documentary last week that showed the life of a family in Israel, one with a teenage son and this family was far from peaceful thinking. As well, the son perceived being an pilot in the army the same as being a doctor. The mother and father were both hawks. Ignorance is everywhere and I am sorry if my discussion seems to give me an air of superiority in your eyes. That is furthest from my thoughts. And no, I will never pretend to know all about everything but you calling me ignorant is counter productive. Tell me what your solutions are and show me the results of such solutions. Have the rockets on Israel been silenced?